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The Pastor v Atheist Debate

Heard our debate between Dan Barker and Ross Clifford? Leave a comment! If you missed it, check out the podcast. For two decades Dan Barker was a Christian pastor. He wrote over 100 Christian songs, travelled the United States as a preacher, even served in Mexico as a missionary. Today he's an evangelist... for atheism. Hear him debate Ross Clifford - he was a lawyer before becoming a pastor. In Bible College he started to doubt his faith, but today is a noted Christian evangelist. The two preachers come together to debate God, faith, Jesus and the resurrection.




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Comments (10)

Peter:

Thank you once again Sheridan, for including such interesting, fascinating and challenging content on your show. Listening to this debate, I have never felt so challenged in my own faith before.

Even though I am a Christian, I am not afraid to admit that a lot of what Dan was saying made a lot of sense to me, and I could say the same for Ross.

The bottom line is, none of us can really have any idea what the bigger picture is. We hardly even know what the universe is like outside our own solar system. I think it makes perfect sense that there is a "God" being that is much higher than we are, but with that, there is no way we mere humans could possibly hope to comprehend what He/She/It is completely about. All we have to go on is what we have been shown, and that's where it comes down to the fundamental question: do you believe the gospels or not?

For those who got frustrated at Ross not "shooting down" Dan's arguments, I highly respected the way both debaters (and Sheridan as well) allowed the other to finish their statements before responding. It could have turned into a slinging match, but that would have been disrespectful and would not have helped either argument.

Thanks once again, Open House. Fascinating listen!

andrew:

I have just listened to this, and I must say that I am very disappointed that Ross let Dan get away with making so many specific claims about the unreliability of the gospels without refuting him. I have heard smoke an mirror atheists like Dan twist the truth before.

In typical "aggressive atheist" style he takes this that can be understood in the style of the writing and calls them lies. Dan, please look up the word "hyperbole" in a dictionary. It is not synonymous with a lie in my dictionary at least.

For those who are concerned about Dan's claim of a contradiction between Matthew and Luke. Here is one discussion of the known facts:
http://www.comereason.org/bibl_cntr/con100.asp

If you want to know more, I suggest you look for the opinions of true historians, Christian and non-Christian. As Ross rightly pointed out, the true historians don't doubt the Jesus described in the bible did exist. What exactly are Dan's historical credentials?

Let me encourage people to not buy Dan's book so he can profit from his deception, but to look for discussions by credible historians instead.
I have found CPX to be valuable in this area:
http://www.publicchristianity.org/

ray luquingan:

Dan barker speaks about the "gap of understanding". He quotes "..and religon and this belief in a God that puts a gap in our ignorance is one of those evolve mistakes that our species are making, that we can outgrow with reason and with human kindness". That statement to me says he believes in God. Where would reason or understanding come from? How about kindness? God gives understanding and kindness is a fruit of the Holy Spirit Right? Should we give Dan a hard time when his on our side?

Susan Toma:

Hi Sheridan

I started to listen Dan & Ross's debate just after 9:30 last night. So i missed a bit of the interview, however i will listen to the whole interview on the net. Thanks for the opportunity you provide for us to be able to listen to it on the internet if we had missed it.

I just want to add my opinion regarding the interview/debate last night. If there is no spiritual beings that exist...then why is there good & bad in humans? And why do we experience a transformation when we confess our sins & decide to follow Jesus & read Gods word...how can Dan explain this????

I can tell you a few stories of spiritual experiences. One is when my middle sister was very young a young girl she must've been about 5 years old..she was laying in bed one night & back then the room she slept in had no doors but had curtain drawn across which was like the door. She said she was laying down in her bed & when everyone was asleep she said she saw the curtains open & two men with hands folded inside their cloaks walked in & sat at the edge of her bed & she said she even felt the bed move like it does when someone sits on it & she was so scared she said she saw one of these men just put his hands gently over her eyes & she fell asleep. She woke up the next morning perfectly unharmed. What would Dan say about this?? We believe they were angels sent by God to my sister. And also i have had a few experiences where i had been laying in bed & not fully asleep but just had my eyes closed trying to sleep & i have felt & it was very real i felt someone poke me & one time i had my eyes closed i felt like someone walked in my room & it was an evil woman that threw herself on me & wanted to kill me but i YELLED OUT JESUS & just opened my eyes & was shaking. You cannot tell me these experiences are nothing!!! I will never deny that God does exist & Jesus is his only son whom came down from heaven..i have seen Jesus a few times in my dreams & i could go on to tell you what those dreams are but there are a few of them. I believe what God says in the bible that we do not fight flesh & blood but we are fighting against evil spirits!!! There are so many signs of Spritual beings around. So if there are Spiritual beings around then GOD DOES EXIST & JESUS IS HIS SON!!! CASE CLOSED DAN!!!

Iain:

Im listening to the evangelist vs evangelist debate. Wow! Dan Barker- for a clearly intelligent man Dan is has no concept of faith and it is this that seems to offend Dans intellect. Its such a shame that Dans religion of yesteryear ''(Im not convinced that he ever was a Christain) did not truely develop into faith that can sustain him now. Ross was very patient in his responses and showed true tolerance and didnt rise to Dans ridicule. Im facinated with people like Barker & Dawkins who always act like the victim when their intellect is challenged. Great topic, well presented that has only strenghtened my faith in Jesus more.

He Rion Lee:

I couldn't follow their conversation last night between Dan and Ross. They are highly intelligent, very logical and sophisticated. I don't know much about hypothesis, probability or historical evidences etc. I felt dum last night compare to them (or many other people). But this morning, while I'm having my breakfast, I feel God's grace and love so much. I don't need to be smart or have high IQ to meet God. Maybe people have to be clever to search the evidences of the Creator but you don't need to be highly intelligent to meet God.
Thank you Sheridan for your courage.

Chris Deller:

Two things came up in the course of Dan's discussions, which struck me in the face because they are very strange for an Atheist to say. Firstly, at the very start (during the intial self-introductions) he mentioned that he used to pray and 'feel a presence', and in fact still can today. The second was in his discussion of his view of the resurrection of Jesus. He argued that the accounts in the Bible refer to 'visions' of Jesus by witnesses, and not of Jesus actually resurrected in the flesh. He stressed that these were not hallucinojenic, but actual visions. Just what may an Atheist be implying by this?

ross:

A try hard athiest pursuing an image.Ross gave him too much room to move.It seemed odd that it was not mentioned that the Bible was inspired by god.Jesus is great but basing the existence of god souly on jesus in debates is rediculous.The bible plainly says seek the face of god.Too prepare one to receive god an understanding of the old testament and new opens the door.Isaiah 55,5 "Surely you will summon nations you know not,and nations that do not know you will hasten to you".In the past science has denied to many now proven truths to allow them to be arrogant or Dan.

Trisha Ellis:

During the debate tonight, Ross Clifford brought forward a very compelling argument regarding how Jesus entire life impacted the world not to mention his disciples. In response Dan Barker used Mohammed as an example of another leader who impacted the world. The comparison is a weak one. If he truly, objectively investigates the facts on both these historical figures, both are worlds apart. Jesus lived and died for others. Mohammed had multiple wives. Jesus displayed and modelled love to his disciples who in turn modelled that same lifestyle to the outside world. Mohammed practiced and taught violence as a means to an end. Mohammed and Islam as an example does not compare with Jesus and his teachings. If Dan had a more compelling argument as Ross did, then maybe we would have to question our beliefs. However in actual fact his comparison is like comparing chalk to cheese. There is no comparison. Jesus is worlds apart in character and example to Mohammed. Ross was right. There has been no other person in the history of mankind who has positively impacted the world as Jesus did.

Trisha Ellis

Esly:

1. A logically connected; consistent, coherent "Worldview" should be able to satisfactorily answer four questions: (or you'll be in a consistency of wonder & confusion in the back of your mind your whole life.)

that of,
*ORIGIN: How did it all start?
*MEANING: Why are we here? Why is anything here?
*MORALITY: Do right and wrong exist? If so, what standard should we use?
*DESTINY: How does it all end? Is there afterlife?

Every major religion makes exclusive claims about truth, but the Christian faith is unique in its ability to answer all four of these questions.

2. It is easy to provide evidence that the God of the Bible "is the actual Creator (as opposed to other religions)." Ask Him yourself. He promises to reveal Himself to all that come on His terms (see John 14:21). No religion claims that. To them, the Creator is unknowable.

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